Hello all,

I've been going through a bit of an issue getting Verizon to clear noise on a POTS business line.

Ever since service was installed, there has been hum and crackling on the line. They traced it back to the plant, and going through all of the pairs to my terminal didn't correct the issue (our second business POTS line actually has zero noise). As a result, the initial technician identified the F1/F2 to the CO as the culprit.

Fast forward to a few days ago, and two techs came out. They said they 'rebuilt' the pair, and I noticed that noise seemed to be largely absent from the line for about 30 minutes after they left. Following that, the noise returned.

Today, there is zero dialtone on that line. Without dialtone, the hum and crackle is still present.

Is it too much to ask that Verizon deliver a clean POTS line? Does it seem unreasonable to request the line not have hum? The hum is almost indiscernable on their butt sets, but perfectly clear on regular telephone instrument (a whole assortment of WE500s, which don't exhibit the noise on any other line).

Don't get me started on their inability to bill correctly or provision features...

Would I have better luck going over to AT&T, which is a CLEC in my CO? I realize they would use the same cable... This is in southern Brooklyn, N.Y.

Thank you!

Brooklyn is notorious for bad copper, most notably bad block. I've both lived (Marine Park and Bensonhurst) and worked (43rd & 3rd, special services garage) in Brooklyn and know it as the back of my hand.

Whoever you go with, you'll be sitting on the same sorry excuse for copper. And if you go with a CLEC, good luck when the cable fails - because the CLEC lines are the last ones that get fixed. I'm speaking from experience here.

Given the shape of the plant, all you can do is:

a) Complain until they decide to finally fix it...and I mean complain *every day* until it gets to be a "chronic" that a second or third level manager will notice and possibly have splicers come out and get it right.

b) Get a PRI - at least these get fixed the same day.

c) Go with a cable company

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply.

Bensonhurst is right on the money. I'm just a couple of blocks from the CO.

What do you mean by 'block'?

I wonder why this area is so notorious...

Block as in F2 - you'll even see F3 in some areas but not where you are.

Are you coming out of 71st or 77th st - not that it makes a difference - both of these COs are actually very good, it's the outside plant that is shot.

The area (the entire borough, actually) is notorious because Verizon is not putting any money into plant maintenence, expecting that everyone will eventually switch to FiOS...in my opinion, that is.

Good luck.

Coming out of 71st -- I'm pretty sure my F2(?)ends at 20th Ave and hits the 'underground' (F1?) to the CO.

The tech was able to find a good, clean pair for my second line from the cross box to my location, but that first line is a real problem child... tried a whole slew of pairs from the cross to the building.

The next time they come out, have them fail ( proper term is "put in a one pair DC") the block if that's where the issue is.

I'm so happy I don't work in Brooklyn anymore...

Good luck. You'll need it.

Do you mind explaining briefly what the DC is? Just a curious mind here and I love traditional telephony.

Sorry for all of the questions. Most of my experience has been with BellSouth, which retained a much more Bell System approach to service. I loved all the fresh cable on the poles, and ne'er an outage do I recall...

Well, basically, if I "run" the whole box (on a repair which would be the case applicable to your situation) and can't find a good pair - be it F1 or F2 - I'll make the call to cable maintenence and tell them that I need to DC a pair. They will take the info, and send a team out to clear *one* pair for the circuit in question (two pairs on a 4-wire circuits, obviously) putting the customer (you) back in service.

No clue on where the term came from, though.

Once again, good luck.

Just guessing, but maybe from "Dead Count"... :shrug:

Great info! They got the line back in service today, so they might've accidentally disconnected my pair over the week... Verizon tends to do that when rearranging services for other customers (in my experience). It's interesting that I was able to continue hearing the hum and crackle without the dialtone, as though there was still battery present.

I still have the hum and the crackle (actually, the crackling is more disturbing than the hum). But I'll take the steps to get it squared away. If nothing else, I'm making a lot of friends who are completely unappreciated by their employer, even though they've maintained a system that's saved countless lives and kept folks connected that otherwise couldn't.

Yes.

You could have saved a lot of electrons (your repeated calls to them, and the responses in this thread) by simply going to the cable company. Verizon is trying to go out of the copper business, and has been doing do since 1990.

I am a former Verizon maintenance splicer, and I refuse to have a VZ line in my house, because they have been unable and unwilling to provide me with a clear line.

I live in Brooklyn and when I moved into my current house (30 years ago) the static on the line after a rainstorm was horrible. I'd call for repair and they'd delay for a few days until everything dried out and then give it an NTF.

One day the problem was so bad the gal at Repair yelled at me that she couldn't understand me and I should try to find another phone to call the problem in on. Then she hung up.

I went down the block to the Lutheran church, banged on the sexton's door and told him I was going up the pole in his back yard. (He looked at me like I was crazy, but nodded OK) I had put tone on my line in the house and found my pair without a problem. After cleaning all the bugs out of the box, I removed my pair from the binding post, restripped it, cleaned the posts, and re-terminated the connection. Clean as a whistle.

Then I did something that hadn't been done in probably 10 years.

I closed the box.

To be fair about 10 or 15 years later Nynex replaced all the plant in my neighborhood. (I hadn't had any problems in that time, but I guess other people did). The new plant was fine and worked well. I switched to FIOS a few years ago and the service has been excellent.

But originally...... The worst.

Sam

I'm starting to find that things as simple as closing a terminal is novel in NY Tel territory... it wasn't like this with South Central Bell.

I got a happy ending today: Two gentlemen came out to do the regular spiel of clearing the IW and the block, and after a few minutes I convinced them to swap pairs in the F1. They saw the imbalance once I mentioned that the block pairs had been swapped numerous times.

After an hour, dialtone arrived on the new F1 and the line is pristine.

It only took 2 months ;-)

I now have crosstalk between the two Centrex lines, and an occasional scratching sound that is preceded by a noisy build-up. The scratching sound, interestingly, is intermittent and if I hang-up and re-dial, normally is clear. That issue could be the line card, I suppose.

Verizon has no interest in maintaning or upgrading copper. Your customers are better off going to FIOS or Comcast.