MICS 6.1 xc, 3 T-1's, non-PRI.

This customer is a collection agency, so as you imagine, outbound traffic is high.
They intermittently get "no free lines"
even though they have 64 channels in Pool A (8 channels are in pool B for their legal dept.) This happens even when there's only 10 or 20 people in in the morning or on a Saturday.

The carrier says they have never hit ceiling.

We've troubleshot our balls off and can find nothing wrong in our system cofig.

My hunch (and tech support) says it's the carrier. They disagree.

What we have here, boys, is a Mexican stand-off.

The main reason I am second guessing myself is that in another post I made with a similar problem on a 3-PRI system it turned out to be CbC limits. That parameter is not available on a straight T-1.

Is there an equivilant parameter I am over-looking??

If your carrier says they aren't seeing all the trunks busy, I'd have to believe them. If they were trying to deceive you they'd tell you they were so they could sell you another T1. Does your carrier have monitoring equipment on the T's so they can see if they are clean? If not do you have access to a Tberd or equivalent with a lid to break out the channels? Your going to have to put it in or out of the switch and that's the only way I know how to prove it.
Bill

Well, The strangest thing happened on that job.

As I browsed the the lines to see if they were busy or idle in maintenance. I found that the system could only access 22 channels of the 3 t-1's. The rest said "unavailable" including the entire 3rd T-1.

So I disabled and re-enable all the cards and poof.....72 channels!!!!

I hope it was a glitch and not just a symptom of a bigger prob.....

I must not have paid attention in class. how are you getting the third T-1 into the system? I know they changed a lot on the 6.1, but I was not aware of the addition of another T-1.

with 6.1 and new gen T1 card you can install T1 cards in other tan core slots, I think up to 4.

My understanding is that with 6.1 XC you can only have 3 T-1's max. The 3rd occupies slot 1 of a 12x0 and requires an "AAAA" card and renders the other 2 slots unusable.

Well, it's been over a week and I went back there on other business and it's still happening.

I dialed "9" and got line 18 (it starts @ line 108). I then went into maintenance to check the busy/idle state of a few lines and they were "unavailable" (as opposed to again busy or idle).

SO...what I had hoped was the problem is actually a symptom that can be fixed in the short run by de-provisioning & re-provisioning the channels one by one, or resetting the cards one by one, or probably the entire system.

What could be causing 2/3's of the total channels across 3 T-1's to lock up?.....

Can't be bad cards because it's on all 3 T's.....maybe S/W corruption or telco is all I can guess.

Assuming the T's are good, since you haven't said otherwise, next time have telco see what state they see the trunks in. Sounds like your not releasing and the trunks are taking themselves out of service.
Bill

not releasing???
As in disco supervision on a CO?

elaborate, please....

Yes, either not receiving release supervision or not releasing. That is why I said have telco see what they see on the trunks, they can also set up a trap to see when and why they fail, trap will come from supplier of the trunks. Also Tberd makes a great test set that will break out each channel and can be hooked up to a printer, they are expensive so maybe you can find a tech in your area that has one, might even get lucky and have telco put one on for you, but I doubt it.
Bill

Even that will be expensive.

what type of trunks on the T-1's?

E & M.

USA MICS-XC 6.1-FC

Don't know who your supplier is, but I was in that side of the business for a long time. We would set up traps to see why something was failing, once agian what is telco telling you they see when this happens? I know other ways are expensive, but work with your supplier. It has to be proven in our out of your switch.
Bill

They (telco) say that they've never hit ceiling before.

My supplier's tech support is now telling me that the specific version of S/W in the KSU has a bug relating to T-1. This could be the cause of the problem of course we won't know until we replace it.

The system version in Maintenance programming is: SP30CPE06.

He says that the "E06" indicates a problematicc S/W version and needs to be changed to "G05", which is a "Maintenance Release" version I've never heard of.

I'll let you guys now if this is the fix or not.

Has anybody ever heard of this bug before?


[This message has been edited by Jack Damage (edited September 02, 2004).]

There are lots of problems with that s/w and for the first time Nortel issued a second release s/w and called it MR (maintenance release) because they know they messed up big time that time, and here I quoted some of the Nortel described problems on their report from ITAS (Nortel Support).
Issues resolved in MICS 6.1 MR WI 6.05
• Call Duration Timer (F77) would reset to zero on calls that were placed or received on
Digital trunks. Each time a call was parked the timer would reset to zero resulting in a loss
Of running time. This was only an issue on calls that were on a digital trunk. The timer
Now continues until the call is released.
• Not able to reply to PRI SETUP messages when connected to DMS10 using NI -2 protocol.
This issue was resolved by correcting the response to an incorrect IE in DISCONNECT and
RELEASE.
• Some sites running either T1 or PRI have reported a high number of network related issues
Causing dropped calls. Updates to PRI-T1 and NAT1 firmware were made to raise our alarm
Thresholds.
• Some inbound calls to the Off-Core DTI (configured as an E&M) may not offer ring back. All
Channels are now offer ring back on the Off-Core DTI.
• There were a few incidences with Off-Core DTI lines that appeared as "Not a digital Line"
When viewed in provisioning. The same system would also report “unequipped” on certain
Ports in maintenance. In maintenance ports 801-804, 809-812 and 817-820 were all usable
Ports showing “idle” however, ports 805-808, 813-816 and 821-824 were showing
“Unequipped”. This was found to be an issue on systems that were upgraded from R1T1 or
MICS 1.0 to MICS 6.0/6.1 however, if a startup was done after upgrading to MICS 2.0 or
Greater this was not an issue.
• When dialing out over a point to point T1 (configured as an E&M) some sites reported that
A pause was required after dialing the destination code. A pause is no longer required
After dialing destination code for point to point configurations.
• Updated the protocol table entries for NI-2 to reflect current international standards.

That’s actually some of the problem that they admit to it but I saw a lot more with my customers .So its possible that your problem could be fixed by that MR s/w or you could have a problem Like previously mentioned with the T1 provider. I hope that helps.

Good Luck!

Got another system w/ 3 T-1's and the exact same software version ending in "E06" and the lines are E&M.

It's doing some wiggy things as well,
causing them to have to reboot the system every 3 days or so.

If this turns out to be the fix, then I'm going to make it a point to the boss to only issue 6.1 MR XC with all T-1 systems.

I'll keep you posted as the solution develops.

------------------
Punch all Pairs!

They don't happen to have some phones set-up with outbound transfer do they? Like, maybe remote sales agents that have calls automatically forwarded to their cell phones?

No they don't, but some of the mailboxes have outbound xfer (dial 7 during the greeting) enabled for urgent calls (it's a doctor's office).

Anyway, today I installed the MR version of MICS 6.1 XC.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

BTW, does any one know where I can get mapfile ANF01ENG?




[This message has been edited by Jack Damage (edited September 22, 2004).]

Jack - the first thing i would try is to change your dialing plan from 9 to 9any - i have seen this fix the problem many times but not always
- i have seen this problem on many sytems from 4.1 to 6.1 s/w
- Nortel is aware of the problem and do not have a solution and the only sure fix i know of is to change them to pri's

Another thing you can try is using external csu's - i know some vendors who do not seem to have this problem when they have integrated T1's (18 channels of voice and 6 channels of data) with an external csu but i have yet to prove this.

I am also awaiting a reply from DrNortel who writes a column in the mart magizine.

You are not alone with this trouble -

The dial out code is "99", if the problem persists, I'll try "9-any".

Read the reply a few entries back. According to SamH, Nortel did acknowledge a problem with E&M lines and 6.1 XC. The MR version is supposed to be the fix. At this point it remains to be seen for me. I just installed it yesterday. So we'll see.......so far, so good.

Well, it's been about a week and a half and the one system that was locking up (the doctor's office with a bunch of tenants) has not needed rebooting since the S/W upgrade to 6.1 XC MR. It seems that this is indeed the fix for E&M configured T-1 systems!

However, I'm still looking for the map file so I can back it up.

There still is the original system I spoke about in this post to be dealt with. We got the system from a different vendor and they said something about sending us a patch from Nortel instead of replacing the S/W outright like we did on the doctor's office.

Anyway, just wanted to pass on the good news to those in the same boat.

From now on, we'll make it a matter of policy to only issue MR S/W with all T-1 systems.


------------------
Punch all Pairs!

BTW, thanks to all who offered their input to me on this issue, especially SamH. It was your post with the quote from the Nortel docs that covinced our vendor of the problem. I had copied and emailed it to them.

Thanks again to everyone.

I love this place!!!!

------------------
Punch all Pairs!

Jack Damage, I found a link on another tech site for the 6.1 map files. I don't know if it is permitted to post the link here but if you email me I will send the link.
B.

I've been battling this problem with four sites (3 T1's @ 2; 2 @ 1; 1 @ 1) with Qwest since January, 2004...I'm SO glad I found this thread! I had to change all my T's to Loop start to fix the problem - since no one could tell me why the lines would go "Not In Service" over time...but now all offices need to take inbound with DNIS/ANI - and that doesn't work over Loop start channels...I have had better success with AMI/D4 vs B8ZS/ESF and E&M - but - just prolongs the eventual Reboot (or Disable/Enable T1 Card) solution. Anyway - I just got a price for an upgrade to MICS sw v7.0 - I am running 30CQE06 (@3 sites) and 30CQG05 (@1 site) - and I was told I need 30CQG15 to fix this problem. Is there a Maintenance release that Nortel provides for free??? Or do I have to tell these customers (who are EXTREMELY frustrated with the situation after nearly TWO years) that they need to spend what appears to be over 2 Grand for their four sites to fix the problem? More importantly...this DOES fix the problem, correct?

Thanks for any advice/feedback...David

Hi VFRDavid,

Welcome to the board! (2 years is a long time to live with a problem like this)

Are you having the problem at the site with the 30CQG05 software? Or, is it just the sites that are running 30CQE06?

The reason I ask is, 30CQG05 IS the MR software. As for going to 30CQG15, that code does not exist. 30CQ only went to G10. If your 30CQG05 site is not having the problem, there is a good chance that upgrading your other sites will fix the issue.

Nortel will usually replace software for known issues, if the following conditions are met:

1) you have a valid site ID (legal software)

2) an authorized vendor opens a case with Nortel

3) the software is still supported by Nortel (the latest version to be discontinued was 4.1)

4) Nortel's engineers determine that your problem will be corrected by the new software

Good Luck!!!

Thanks for your reply...nope these were 'independent' installations...so - I don't think I'll be able to put together many of the req's list. I have to check on which site has the Gnn software - one of the 4 sites hasn't had the problem...probably that's the one. I'm out of town now, but will revisit this on Monday when I return.

I tried to get the latest v6.1 of the software - no go - So I've acquired 7.0 - not installed yet. They have a NAM v4.x (not sure if it was 4.1 or 4.0). I will use NRU to backup the old one - but do I have any major concerns with going from 6.1 to 7.0 that anyone knows about? Thanks for any feedback.

should migrate easily from 6.1 to 7.0. system must be 6.1 before going to 7.0 upgrade tool is required if upgrading from between 4.1 - 6.0. takes about 20 minutes to come up. your backup will be useless in 7.0 but good to have in case you have to go back. NAM must be 4.1 and if you're running 6.1 it already is.

Have your keycodes available

Thanks for the reply...with Wilma in town, the project has been put off until they get power, will update and let you know how it went...

I've upgraded two systems to v7.0 (the latest v6.1 didn't do the trick for me, or I didn't get the correct one from my supplier). One was regular, one was XC. Time will tell if it corrected the "No Free Lines" issue...but a weird new symptom emerged...DN 245 and 249 (Ports 0125 and 0129) are misbehaving. 245 says "CALLBACK" in the display all the time, and 249 goes off hook and stays there (no buttons work, including Rls, so you have to unplug the set to get it to reset). I have enough sets to move those two elsewhere for now...but it was weird that the same symptoms appeared on the same sets on two MICSs...anyone else see this? Any ideas??? Thanks!!!

This is the third or fourth post in the latest dozen posts that mention the same thing about 245 and 249.

7.0 is alpha software, not even beta from the number of different complaints and number of complaints about the same thing.

245 and 249 is software fault, not yours for sure.