atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Security, Alarms and Paging Alarm to DEMARC, Best Practices?

Hello,

As a brief intro, I am a security technician working mainly with alarms, CCTV, EAS, POS, access control, and some locksmithing.

Some things I am fairly well versed and confident in, others not so much. I enjoy learning new things, though. This is actually one of my favorite things about working with tech and installation issues.

However, I feel like I am running into a big challenge when it comes to properly installing my RJ31X jack into various DEMARCs

I've tried to research the issue, but I am pretty frustrated. There are so many variables. Various types of NID on residential alone. Then there's 66 and 110 blocks, DSL issues Old color codes, newer CAT5.

I want to handle my telephone connections in such a way that a professional telephone technician or engineer would be able to come behind me in my work and think to themselves, "Wow! Finally! An alarm tech who knows what he is doing!"

BUT... I'm having a hard time reaching that point because I keep running into so many different variations on installations, yet so few resources to learn how to do things the best way possible. Some sources are somewhat helpful, yet others have given me some advice that wasn't so good.

Should I just keep working at it?

or...

Should I maybe tell customers to please have their phone company install a RJ31X at the location I designate and *then* give me a call?

I know a lot of us alarm guys catch a lot of flak from phone guys for doing poor installations. I don't want to be that guy.

Sorry for the long post... but thank you very much in advance for any help or advice.

I certainly commend you for making an effort to do things right.

The concept here is simple. An RJ-31x needs to be the first thing after the demarc or NID ALWAYS on the subscriber side. The line comes into the jack, through the alarm panel (assuming one is plugged in) then back out to any phone or other device the uses that line.

This sounds simple but in practice you are at the mercy of whoever was there before you. Sometimes you can determine things right away, other times what's there really needs to be ripped out and redone.

There is no real way to teach you what you need to know. Once you learn about POTS wiring and wiring methods, DSL, and what NIDs look like, some logic and experience will make things "click".

-Hal

Another Tip is have the right tool for the job..pick yourself up a punch tool with a 66 blade and a 110 blade in it.

***DO NOT USE YOUR SCREWDRIVER ON PUNCH BLOCKS***

Also toss a box of 2 or 3 pair cat 3 in the truck, use it when you connect your lines instead of the quad, that alone will blow the phone guys mind.

It will come with time, try to hook up with a local phone guy, maybe someone that installed a system at one of your sites. Let him know know you that you need to install an RJ31X and would rather have him install it, or show you how he would prefer it be installed. You may need to pay for his time, but in the endit will be worth it.

RJ31X

I am glad to see a member of your profession wanting to do things correct.

I use the railroad track analogy to explain how to properly install the RJ31X. Think of the phone line as a train and the two wires the line operates on as a pair of tracks. The train will enter the business at a location provided by a service provider. It is most commonly a RJ21X. That will be the main train station. It is at that location you will create a detour the in the track to run the train to your RJ31X and return it back to the station. Here is a tip: If you feel the need to disconnect a pair of wires in order to get to the end of the wires and crimp a pair of beanies on you are being non professional. The pins on the RJ21X are the end of those wires and that is where you connect using the proper tool like has been said. If it is necessary to disconnect obvious in-house wiring then you must use use available empty pins to reconnect the in-house wiring thus returning it to it's described destination.

Now I know there are variable circumstances such as yourself installing the security system prior to a demark even being installed.

As an installer If I see an RJ31X present on a backboard I'll do the connection. I have in the past installed the RJ31X for the security installer just to have it ignored.

Basic philosophy is, Beanies Bad-Punch Tool Good!

Also, make sure you are connecting to a POTS line and not a station on the phone system.

One issue I've run into with alarms -

If there is a DSL filter connected to the NID (usually with a splitter - one side with the filter [going to all the phones in the house] and one side without a filter [going to the DSL Modem]), always install your RJ31X on the filter side, AFTER the filter, not before.

If you install it before the filter, you will cut the DSL speed in half and not help your alarm installation in any fashion.

Thank you for considering that the customer should hire their telephone company install this jack. One would expect that this would be the correct approach, but not any more. Having them do any level of inside wiring these days has become somewhat of a joke. If they'll even allow the service order to be placed, the installation is usually done incorrectly. The telcos don't hire qualified technicians like they used to as recently as five years ago.

They hire people that they can train how to use a crayon to write a phone number on a label. The phone number must be there because everyone else involved said that it is, so they just fill in the blank. Anything beyond that becomes the customer's responsibility, regardless of whom is at fault. The customer is always at fault in the eyes of the telephone company.

To suggest that hiring them for this job is almost the equivalent of suggesting that the customer contact the water/sewer company to replace a washer in the bathroom sink. Better yet, the electric power company to install a dimmer in the dining room. The utility providers stay as far outside of the premises as they can get.

Honestly, many private interconnect companies don't even understand the entire "RJ" concept. I wish that I had a better answer for you, but the truth is that you are on your own to figure out how do it correctly. That's pretty much what has already been suggested, but we'll help you as best we can.

My biggest beef with people installing series jacks, AKA: RJ31X through RJ38X is that they buy the cheap imported Chinese or Taiwanese jacks and cords for this purpose. I believe that ADEMCO offers a jack and cord package for under two bucks.

Everyone knows that the alarm jack is supposed to be the #1 and most important connection to the customer's phone lines, typically on their main line. Why in heaven's name would someone buy one of those supply-house brand import jacks to manage such an important connection?

Since we are on an even keel here, here is another one of our beefs: The monitoring company is able to communicate with the alarm panel, but for some reason, dial tone isn't leaving the panel to refeed the circuit to the phones. "The alarm company said it's good to their equipment; they said it must be something wrong with your phone system".

We'll elaborate on that matter later as it is typical of the finger-pointing that is spreading like a cancer through our industry.

Welcome aboard, RJ31X. You will get plenty of feedback and support here, sometimes heated, but we'll help you out. It's rare that security people even ask, they just act and then it becomes our fault when the phones don't work.

WOW!

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and candid replies.

I've got a 66 and 110 punch down tool. It isn't a fancy one, but it works. I'd never use a screwdriver or beanies... that's just.... wrong. :shiver: (I actually put my EOLR at the EOL, too!)

I'd prefer to use CAT3, but my distributor doesn't even carry it. I've asked for it and they looked at me funny. Instead, I've been using CAT5. I think I'll have to special order some CAT3 and go ahead and take the hit on the shipping costs.

I'm also with you on springing for the better quality RJ31X. You can just look at them and usually tell which is better quality. When it comes to saving only a couple of bucks, my way of thinking is "buy cheap, buy twice".

I've got numerous wiring diagrams for wiring the RJ31X in and I take the time to refer to them. I've got a butt set which helps a great deal in listening to my signal to make sure things are working well. I try to do the best I can testing the phones to make sure they work, then I plug the system in to the RJ31X and test for line seizure, etc.

I'd like to learn more about how to test the on and off hook voltage, current, and circuit loss in order to really be able to troubleshoot. My thinking is that if the phones are working BEFORE I mess with them, then I need to be able to test them after I monkey with it and document that they are working properly before I leave.

It looks like the best course of action would be to learn how to do this stuff right myself. Are there any text books or equipment items that anyone might recommend?

Again... thanks enormously for your very warm welcome and generous advice!

The above advice is all good. I will add that with the advent of VoIP lines from the various cable companies, and from Vonage and MagicJack, you will be handed even more problems.

Beware of recent activity at a customer's premises where an ILEC line has been changed over to one of the above services. Most of the time, the "installer" or customer will have used the most expedient method of getting the dial tone to the phones. One method is placing the modem on the second floor in a bedroom, patching the dial tone output from the modem to a nearby RJ11, and sending the dial tone back to the basement on a distribution wire.

That usually means that your alarm panel is now wired incorrectly, through no fault of yours.

You will get dial tone, but probably coming from the wrong (output) pair of wires on the 2-pair cable feeding the RJ31X.

The answer is to move the modem to the area where the original NID is/was, or (less safe/legal) send the dial tone down to the NID area using a spare pair in the inside wire.

Do a lot of careful testing in these situations, or your customer will be left unprotected.

CAT 5 works just as good as CAT3. Don't special order CAT 3, it's a waste of money. That said, use your butt set to verify your on the right line, don't just use any dialtone you can find like I see most minimum wage installers here in Oklahoma do. At the DeMarc end hook up the Blue/White pair to the Demarc. At the RJ31 end, hook up your Blue/White pair to the Red/Green on the RJ31. Hook up Orange/White to the other pair in the RJ31, the ones at the jack end on the jack, don't know the colors because I've seen them change from vendor to vendor. Back at the DeMarc the Orange/White pair feeds dialtone on into the location, PBX/house whichever.

Pay attention to the previous post if you are on the DSL line and ask a local interconnect for some help in learning it, most of us are glad to get it done right the first time, I did't bid in the time it takes to clean up after someone else and don't need the extra work.