sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Nortel vs. TMC

Hi. I am new to the board and am looking for some advice. I have a small business that requires 4 phones, with option to expand. We are looking at non-KSU systems and are trying to decide between the Nortel Venture A067830GP and the TMC EV4500. Both have all the features we need, which include auto attendant, 3-4 lines, voicemail, transfer of calls, and expandability. However, finding reviews on these phones is next to impossible. We have a panasonic now, which honestly is horrible. I have been told to stay away from panasonic and GE for what we need. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.
Rob

I don't beleive non ksu type phones are a solution for anyone, they use radio frequency to provide intercom and that is usually a problem. Having said that, I must admit that I did not know Nortel offered such a system, they are a top brand, and may break that mold that I am familiar with. I never heard of TMC, if you are inclined to follow this path, the Nortel should be the one to consider first. You might ask for info in the Nortel forum, if you want, I can move this whole thread there.
Mark

I think the TMC is the old Telematrix product. I agree with Mark. We used to sell a few KSUless systems and every single one of them had to come out. We tried almost every product on the market at the time and customers hated them. I had to eat the cost to replace them. Good luck.

They never work right. Takes looped cables, lots of time to find sneeky problems. Don't sell, install or service them. Need another line, they go in the dump.

Kinda off post but I thought TMC meant The Movie Channel . Never heard of voicemail and autoattn on a ksu less system that could signal other sets that they have a vm message and transfer callers to a ksu less extension . But when alhiemers sets in you learn new things and meet new people every day .

Rob, Mark and Mark:

Yes, Nortel has a low-end spin-off company using the Astra name, but it looks exactly like Nortel equipment. We just took one of those systems out due to the radio intercom issue. Verizon charged the customer an arm and a leg for the phones, yet they were happy to pay us for a real system after six months trying to use them. I have seen the TMC product in catalogs but after the horrific problems we had with their first and second generation of non-KSU phones, we vowed to never sell them again.

Rob, the problem is that you are really not saving any money buying these things. True, they may cost less to purchase, but they are a consumer-level product and don't hold up well in a commercial environment. Every phone has to be plugged into an electrical outlet. One bad phone can crash all of the rest. The list goes on. Perhaps the worst thing with these phones is that they are always discontinued within a year or two and rarely does a manufacturer offer compatible replacements. They want you to keep buying them over and over again. It's basic retailing 101.

To be fair and unbiased, we also sold these "systems" that were marketed using the AT&T, IBM, Phonemate and Cortelco (ITT) names. It's pretty obvious that one manufacturer in China makes most if not all of them. We tried them all in an effort to help smaller offices find something affordable. None, as in not a single one of these systems ever held up well enough for us to to keep recommending them. A few phones in a home office environment are one thing, but in a real office, they won't hold up. They just aren't built for that.

Warranty and support is another issue. With the non-KSU phones, the warranty is with the manufacturer. That means you box it up and ship it to them when it doesn't work. Can you afford to be without a phone for a month or two during this process? I doubt it. The manufacturer's agent will probably send you a replacement or a coupon of some sort to obtain a replacement at a local retailer. You will be hard pressed to find any level of on-site support for these products. Buying them is really not much different from buying a DVD player.

I am really surprised that you have a problem with Panasonic. They are actually one of the more stable systems out there, so either you have a very old system or it's just not set up correctly. Before you jump into buying this stuff, you might want to consider spending 25-50% more, doing it right the first time AND getting a real system that won't be discontinued next year.

I wired the Venture for a customer years ago. It is a 3 line but you have to wire a 4th pair to make the intercom work. The office it was going in had been previously wired with 3 pair so it took some rework. There is no auto attendant or voicemail on it and you couldn't transfer, just put on hold. The quality of the phones were good though. I have to agree, spend the money on a good system rather than on these units.

Ed
If the ksu features are there on a ksu less system , where is the call processor ? What chip intelligence do the ancillary phones have ?

Welcome to the board, Robbb!

I have to agree also, don't go with the ksu-less phones. We've done them also, and have had problems. If you have to much cable, the lights don't work correctly.

You also say you need 4-lines with room to expand. I've never seen KSU-less phones that could handle more than 4-lines. So, you're not going to have ANY room for expansion with these.

Plus, some manufacturers (like Vodavi) have a 5-year warranty on their phones. You want find that with anything from an Office Box Retailer.

We recently set up some of these type phones for a customer. They called and said they had already purchased the phones. They really should have talked to us before the purchase. We had to re-wire the office because it was only wired with 3-pair. After seeing how much they paid for the phones, they could have had a real system for maybe $300-400 more.

Call a couple of interconnects in your area. Let them give you a quote and see what your options are.

Thanks for all the great feedback. We did get a lot of quotes from telecom folks in our community, and were just really hoping to save money, as we are a new business. We got quotes on several systems, including Aspire, Adix ECS, Avaya, and Polycom IP 501. If we go with any of these, any advice on what to go with or to steer clear of? All system quotes seem to be around $3,000. Also, is it worth buying one of these systems online and putting it in ourselves, or do the potential pitfalls of this make it not worth the time.
Thanks again to all.
Rob