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How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129026 07/18/06 03:05 PM
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Jerome Offline OP
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I recently had a Nortel BCM 50 installed by Advanced Communications Solutions in VA. 5 or 6 phones (model 7316E) out of 12 have failed totally or had a display failure. Total time since installation, about 2 months.

The expansion model failed. My business needs good reliable phones. How do I get Nortel or the dealer (We are at an impasse...) to take the system back?

Also, how would one ID gray market phones?

Jerome

Nortel Equipment and Telephones
Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129027 07/18/06 03:40 PM
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welcome

Sorry to hear you are so unsatified with your BCM 50. It is quite a reliable system if installed correctly.

I can not comment on your vendor as i don't know them, except to say buyer beware. You should research your vendor as well as the equipment you intend to buy. There is no sure fire way to tell grey market from not. Also there are many grey market resellers out there. Some reputable some not. I believe you should consult your lawyer if you suspect fraud.


Marv CCNA, CTUB
TeleMarv Services
Providing telecommunication solutions in Ottawa Canada since 1990
http://www.telemarv.ca
Specializing in Nortel Norstar, BCM and Allworx VoIP Servers
Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129028 07/18/06 04:40 PM
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With the BCM-50 you really MUST immediately upon installation, update all the patches for it. You can have intermittant problems if you don't.


If CON is the opposite of PRO
Then what is the opposite of Progress?
Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129029 07/18/06 04:49 PM
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5 out of 12 bad T7316E sets? That's unheard of. Are these phones all in the same building or do you have multiple buildings? I'm just wondering if there is another culprit.

Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129030 07/19/06 12:17 AM
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You could ask the company to see it's Nortel certification (training) documents. If they can't show you that, then I don't see how they could be a direct dealer and would not have automatic access to software updates.

MANY people gray market Nortel, Toshiba, etc. and with proper help from a real dealer have access to all software, tech bulletins on problems, etc. Just because it was gray market does not mean you have an automatic right to return it if the tech was a goof.

You can always contact Nortel and ask for a list of certified dealers in your city or area.

If a certified Nortel tech can get everything updated (if needed) and working fine, then you would certainly have a right to claim that money in small claims court.

You didn't buy miserable equipment. Maybe you had a good installer with poor luck, that happens. Maybe you had an inexperienced installer without good backup, we would not know that.

The best suggestion I can think of is look for Norstar dealers in your phone book, ask them if they are certified and would you be able to see that. Or, ask Nortel for a list of certified techs in your area. Have someone qualified work on this, make it run perfectly and be happy.

Grey market is legal, frowned upon but legal. You are not having problems because the equipment is or is not grey market. Was the person who sold and installed it qualified to do so, that is the big question.


THE Bracha, old blond specialist in Rube Goldberg solutions.
Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129031 07/19/06 12:39 PM
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Jerome Offline OP
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Thanks to all for the helpful comments.

The dealer is Advanced Communication Solutions and they are listed as an authorized reseller on the Nortel website. I cannot comment on their competence but they seemed good enough to sign the contract. It is the results that are of course the problem.

I don't know about the patches, but will try to find out. I know when the expansion module failed, Nortel made them do about 2 hours of diagnostics before they would replace it.

Re Other Culprits? Here is some data. As far as the bad sets, all are in the same building. Building is about 5 years old, but the transformer is brand new, I think. Square D.

The failures have been one or two at a time. In one case, the installer brought two new (I presume?) replacement phones...said he hadn't tested them yet, and only one of the two was OK. Early on, I put in a pretty feature-rich Tripp Lite Smartonine 1000VA XL...surge supressor/line conditioner. thoughts?

One of the two installers who worked here said there were "known issues" with the BCM 50 Expansion Module. One of the dealer owners contradicted this, and Nortel also denies this. Any other observations would be welcome.

As far a legal, I am quite open to that but am trying to get as much info as possible first. I cannot sue for (misrepresenting) gray market if they aren't gray market.

I am also talking to Nortel Ottawa and it is too early to see if they will be helpful or sweep-it-under-the-rug specialists.

One last question: if you have a fairly newish Nortel phone on your desk, where was it made? These say Mexico. Every single one shows a mfgr date of 4/19/06.

Thanks again
Jerome

Re: How To Exit a Lemon System?
#129032 07/19/06 11:33 PM
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7316e phones could be made in Mexico, I have had 7316s from there. I understood that Nortel was going to have phones made in Taiwan by some huge electronics firm but I haven't seen any "Made in Taiwan" or "Made in China" labeled phones so far.

If your expansion module is working fine now, then there is not much to say, they fulfilled the warrantee.

If they are certified on the Nortel site it would not be likely that you received "gray" market phones. "Gray market" means someone bought from an authorized dealer and sold them to someone who was not certified by Nortel. This is not illegal but you don't have a direct link to Nortel if problems arise with the dealer.

If the phones continue to fail, you should ask Nortel for an extended warranty and ask to have an engineer inspect the site. You may or may not get, but it is worth asking.


THE Bracha, old blond specialist in Rube Goldberg solutions.

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