atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Is VoIP an attempt to steal phone tech work?

It seems like VoIP is a completely polar experience. Either it works great for you, or you die a horrible death.

Guess its one of those things with no real middle ground.

Just as a casual observation, it seems like those who are more willing to get in-depth with VoIP tend to have better experiences then those who approach it as a plug-and-play kind of deal. But the same can be said for any TDM system as well. Implementation is the key

Ed, PM sent.

just had a location install a Shoretel VoIP system and add our IVR into the mix. Our 4 port device and 1 port for fax/modem could not use more than 2 ports total. Something about how many licenses the site had purchased for analog sets.

Wow, I wonder how often these licenses will require upgrading/renewing/etc.

Frank, did you explain BOHICA to the customer? John C. (Not Garand)

Great conversation thread! I am not a telco business guy, but am the telco guy for the small manufacturing company for which I work (Northern Tel SL-1). I also support the computer network, and mostly provide manufacturing support and improvement.
Ever since I started doing anything telco (about 25 years ago, with an SL-1, a TIE key system, an Electra system) I was amazed at how primitive the programming interface was, but mostly how convoluted and spagetti like changes were (like:to enable a feature you have to make 4 changes in different places). Maybe the newer SL-1 PC interface fixes all this (I got old software on mine), but the NEC DSX-40 system I just bought (and had high hopes for it being much easier to program and talk to) has exactly the same program interface as the TIE and Electra of 20 years ago. (note: it does have a nice PC/ethernet interface so I can talk to it through a menu setup instead of a keypad!....but it is the exact same 1212-01 type programs steps menuized, not made simpler or more logical.
As far as I can tell,, all the phone system code was written way back when and it continues to be used in the same form.
Now as to IP phones; I haven't set up any, but they can emulate existing phone setup code, or make up their own setup system which I am betting will be clean and easy to program (for the good ones). Since the old style phone system mfgs have not made things easier, the new kids will ultimately do it.
gr

, gr. Please take this bit of information in context.

[QUOTE] programs steps menuized, not made simpler or more logical.

Well, gr, logical to whom?

1) You admit you were raised on the Northern Telecom SL-1. The software is written east of the Lakes by Francophone's.....therefore it is written in a reverse thought process, like all Latin-based languages.

2) Your Oriental systems of the past (and today) are based on European telephony (as most of the electronics in the Orient). Remember, the Japanese still drive on the wrong side of the road because their auto industry started with imported English technology. These are the people that copy anything and everything, including the defects.

Simpler , for whom?

1) The only system (PBX) that I have ever worked on that was simpler (the telephony equivalent of DOS) was the original DBX by Stromberg Carlson. The software was written to match telecom grade hardware, not hardware to match the software as most computer companies that manufacturer telecom products do.

2) If you truly know telecom and it's protocols it does make sense therefore it is simple. Undoubtedly you are familiar with IP (Internet Protocol). Once you learn the TP (Telecom Protocol) and understand how your switch interfaces and interacts with the telecom network it makes a lot more sense than the "cloud" that CGs use to show the Internet.

Glad you stuck around, gr, 25 years is a long time for the computer world, but just a blink in the telephony world.

Please enjoy the board, keep your sense of humor about you, and join in with your experience.

:thumb:

I used to be quite good at creating computer programs in Basic and Quick Basic way back when. I certainly wouldn't want to do that to program a phone system.

Early electronic key systems (what you are refering to) were quite primitive and convoluted in their programming, particularly the off-shore brands. The difficulty in understanding was made magnitudes worse because of poorly written and translated manuals.

The situation has improved with most major manufacturers as new products were introduced. Many TDM systems can easily be programmed without a PC which is the preferred method.

But now we take a giant step backward. With products such as the Avaya IPO you are back to writing code and needing a PC to make it work. That's all because it's the only thing that makes sense to the people who the systems are intended to be programmed by.

-Hal

I did not take the time to explain BOHICA, but, by time we complete this installation, I am sure the end-user will be "wide open".

This is a fantastic thread!!!! I'm an old time telephone guy who has learned and is constantly learning the VOIP side of the industry. First of all let me say that I believe there will be a need for us telephony types for a very long while yet. BUT, the industry of communications is still undergoing change, and that is nothing new. From the days when crossbar switching took over from step offices and then gave way to ESS Switching to todays evolution to VOIP.

In 1977 I sat in a conference room in Basking Ridge, New Jersey and listened to a guy named Arch Mcgill (THE architect of divestiture) talk about the worlds of telephone and data going through something then called convergence. Since that meeting I have watched this as it has unfolded and I am excited and thrilled to have been a part of that and to continue to be a part of it.

Our little midwest company started doing Voice over Frame Relay when MCI said that they would NEVER support THAT technology!! Then,, 11 years ago we began communicating with our branch offices using VOIP provided through the use of Multitech VOIP boxes. Today we sell and maintain BOTH "legacy" PBX's AND VOIP Systems.

I have a lot more that I'd like to say about our converging industries, but I have already gone on for far too long. I'll finish by saying, there is room for ALL of us and a LOT we each lear about the others world, it's exciting!!!

Am I alone in thinking that the programming interface should do the work of identifying cross-dependancies for you? Most systems pretty much do that in the feature document as the last lines (as; related features, or required features/settings). So, these interactions should be available at least as a pop-up in the programming window, and for sure as a warning if a feature won't work at all unless other features are turned on. With the current horsepower of the PC it would be rather easy to do this kind of interface.(old equipment at least has the excuse that the memory and cpu power were not available.

And thats why I think IP phones will prevail for a whole lot of installations; some will come out with much easier system setup (and yes this means a lot of users/IT guys will be able to set up and maintain a phone system).
gr