atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring electricians running voice/data

Why, we us'ns out here in the sticks are Sooooo Poor. Ya know how poooor? We can't A ford no closet, except the one our other set of clothes hang in along with the shotgun and the blue tick hound.

These clowns spend thousands of dollars per square foot and are too cheap to make arrangments for what makes them their money. If you aren't comfortable, the phone system is not comfortable. They wouldn't put their network server there but telephones are just a bunch of wires, right?

Don't get me started. It only takes a four year degree to design a building and get paid a percentage --- But forty years to be considered a know-nothing.

If your phones aren't ringing you're not making money.

And I've told customers that. The ones that don't understand that usually go with an out of town slick suit salesman and, Boy, do they pay, both for the system and the poor service. They deserve what they get.

Two weeks ago I was told through the grapevine that this one bid went to an out of towner. He saved $800.00 and got the latest version. This is the guy that had asked for a bid six months ago, wanted it install in 3 weeks, bought a used system from a computer guy, and just now got around to building his building. The new version was not even in the supply chain then, little alone the pricing and availability. Now this is a retired Fed prison hack. He treats everyone like a thug. $800? How long do you think he'll stay in business treating his customers and suppliers like that? Heck, I'd added $1800 just to be sure I didn't get it! Some jobs (or customers) just aren't worth it.




[This message has been edited by KLD (edited September 08, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by KLD (edited September 08, 2005).]

I know that I shouldn't make this reply but I will. I have a good relationship with one of the local EC company. When I started my business they called and asked me to quote on terminations and testing on a large project. Since then I have done 12 jobs for them. There was one that they were to pull white C5 voice and blue D5 data it was all blue and no numbers or labels. I back charged them. It has been great for me. They have given me other leads for voice jobs. That is my 2 cents worth. Thanks

Why shouldn't you? The EC seems to be smart enough to know he doesn't know! That's why he has you doing the work. As I've said before, I even sub out wiring to them. Why fight them when you can control them? Same with the CGs. Work with them, build a relatonship. It's called networking. That way every one makes a buck and everything is under control.

The slammers and rat (oops, old union electrician talking) outfits have their market dry up and they tend to look elsewhere.

Good luck up there in the cold country.

Why fight them when you can control them? Same with the CGs. Work with them, build a relatonship. It's called networking.

All I can tell you is that I've been there and done that.

Every EC around here thinks they are datacom specialists, says so right there on their trucks so it must be so. They would never give up a buck and pay someone else to do their job. Their work is usually crap but hey, what does the customer know as long as it works and they get paid.

Then there are the CG's. Okay, I have a couple including an ISP who will refer a small job once and a while like a wiring problem or install a run or two. I reciprocate with whatever I can send them.

A few years ago I had a relationship with a CG who refered us a few large office jobs. We would sell the customer a phone system which would include the installation of all premises wiring and jacks including data. All the CG had to do is bring in his machines and plug them in. Win-win right?

After about three jobs like this he sends us to look at another and we see that all the wiring including the telephone has already been installed. Seems the CG saw how much money he was losing by not installing the wiring and jacks and went out and hired a trunk slammer to work for him cheap. Non-plenum wire where plenum was required, nothing supported in the ceiling, kinks and all the home runs brought out to a location where we couldn't install the system. On top of that he needed to pull a permit and get an inspection and of course he was oblivious to that concept. You get the picture.

After seing this mess I asked him what's up. The CG says that he is going to install all the wiring and jacks from know on. I told him I couldn't work like that and didn't hear from him again.

Funny thing is after that I stopped hearing from those previous customers too. One was a large dental clinic with two locations. They were usually good for a few support and MAC calls every 6 months. Nothing. Then I saw an ad that they were opening a new third location. Didn't call me, why? I decided to call the doc that owns the places and he just kind of brushes me off (unusual because we had a good working relationship) and refers me to the CG without an explanation.

Then I get a call from the last customer we did with this guy. Seems they are going to move and because their system was still under warranty they wanted to get some information. Our contract states that the warranty is void if the system was serviced or moved by anyone but us. The CG insisted on wiring their new space as well as moving and re-installing the system.

They wouldn't say exactly what the CG told them about us either but I surmised that he told these customers that we worked for him, we were no longer working for him and he would be handling all their IT requirements including telcom for $$$ per month.

Work with them? Maybe in Kansas but around here they are back stabbing SOB's.

-Hal

I have seen both sides of the fence when it comes to wire infrastructure. I formerly worked for the local telco and took an early retirement. That was 2 1/2 years ago. At first it was a little slow. Now I have more jobs than I really need. I have worked fixing the mess left behind by some electrical contractors. Actually made some pretty good coin off these guys getting their wire up to spec. Even had one outfit repull some Cat 6 (the copper was actually showing) and it was in tray.These guys I charge by the hour, due to the fact they like to do their own terminations. Fine with me I simply do the terminating again.

Another contractor I know pulls the wire to the locations, and I come in to terminate and test. This fellow has his guys pull it the way I ask and he pays a flat rate per drop. No problems everything pulled and enough slack to cutback for the racks and jacks. But he maybe the exception some of these contractors are simply to large and send the novices to do the work, no supervision. Big coin coming my way when this happens. I have a couple of contractors who actually get me to sub the job. Some people now their limitations.

As for tying both the electrical and communication in the same package when it comes to bidding. This has been a problem for a long time. Even when I was with the telco, there was plenty of squawking. But the local telco only does Belden/Nordx pretty expensive. I have no problem beating these quotes. Even get some referrals from people within the old telco. But plenty are a bit tweeked when they hear that I pulled this job or that. But better someone with experience than a novice with no guidance.

But all in all some of these electrical guys actually now what they are up against. If someone wonders who they should get for a electrical contractor I tell them who does good clean work. These guys know what I say and I get their work. you scratch my back and I scratch yours.

I just finished 1200 Cat 6 drops. The other company did 1900. I will get their work from now on due to the way these specialists (not even electricians but a private firm that specializes in cat 6 wire in residences)did their work. Left all the wiring laying on the ceiling grid. How is that for a firm that considers their forte Structured Wire.

So keep slugging some one is bound to win.

This post is 5 years old...

Still a problem today as I see it.
Some things simply are timeless.

He has a point. Same all stuff.

Might be a point and might be a continuing problem. There does come a time a topic needs to be laid to rest. This ones time has come.