sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Issues with plans and specs for new construction

Currently working on a quote for a new school in Los Angeles. The specs clearly state they want service loops. 3 feet at the IDF and LDF and 10 at the MDF. Standard spec. But ... the plans show they want *all* CAT5 runs (v & d) run in conduit with no more than 2 per 3/4 inch. OK, so how do I give them service loops when the entire run is in conduit? And the plans lay out junction boxes too. I am assuming they want me to use standard steel boxes? Is that common? I've yet to do it that way. Now the thing is they have JBs being fitted with 3, 3/4 inch conduits for the runs to the walls but they have 1-1/2 inch conduit feeding the JB but I can only put 4 cables in a 1-1/2 as spec'd. The spec sheets only describe what kind of conduit they use in a conduit schedule, they do not say metal or plastic or flex duct or plastic flex duct. The plans do not specify plastic or steel. How would you quote that?

OK, it gets worse. There is a lot of fiber, 12 strand MM and 6 strand SM. They want me to also run the fiber through the same kind of junction boxes (same symbol on the plans) but that can't be done and maintain minimum bend radius which are included in the spec sheets.

The specs clearly state they want service loops. 3 feet at the IDF and LDF and 10 at the MDF. Standard spec. But ... the plans show they want *all* CAT5 runs (v & d) run in conduit with no more than 2 per 3/4 inch. OK, so how do I give them service loops when the entire run is in conduit?

It isn't in conduit at the IDF, LDF and MDF. Leave it coiled up at the rack.

I am assuming they want me to use standard steel boxes? Is that common?

Yes, this is commercial work, place of assembly. Are you the EC? I ask because why do you say that you will install the boxes.


Now the thing is they have JBs being fitted with 3, 3/4 inch conduits for the runs to the walls but they have 1-1/2 inch conduit feeding the JB but I can only put 4 cables in a 1-1/2 as spec'd.

Guess you are going to have to take that up with them.

The spec sheets only describe what kind of conduit they use in a conduit schedule, they do not say metal or plastic or flex duct or plastic flex duct. The plans do not specify plastic or steel. How would you quote that?

It's EMT, but again why do you ask? Are you going to install it?

No disrespect intended, but if you have to ask these questions why are you doing this? Most of what you ask are code issues which you should have knowledge of if you are going to do a job like this.

-Hal

I assumed I'd have to leave it exposed but that sure is a lot of cable to leave out like that. Not being able to see this thing I am having a tough time visualizing it.

I am having trouble seeing why in some cases they treat the NEC like a bible verse and then they seem to override it with EIA/TIA but then they even break that spec. As I understand it, you are not supposed to supply more than four outlets per conduit. They have 6 outlets, 1 CAT5 per box rather than 4 boxes with say as many as 6 per box.

Lots of nearly empty conduit and not nearly enough copper to the stations. I suppose I am having trouble breaking through the massive over design in these city projects. All that money isn't buying much.

I'll have to hit the books again. We'll exclude all pathways in the bid.

I have to ask the same question as Hal...

Are you the EC?

If not, the EC should be the one to worry about/answer these questions and most likely, do the work.

If you are the EC, then you should have prior knowledge of these specs and be able to install accordingly, before bidding a job like this.

I am having trouble seeing why in some cases they treat the NEC like a bible verse and then they seem to override it with EIA/TIA but then they even break that spec.

The NEC is a minimum, anything that overrides it cannot be any less unless it is a local ammendment. Architect or engineer specs must at least be in accordance with the NEC and any local codes.

As I understand it, you are not supposed to supply more than four outlets per conduit. They have 6 outlets, 1 CAT5 per box rather than 4 boxes with say as many as 6 per box.

That's not from the NEC, probably a EIA/TIA spec. The EIA/TIA specs carry absolutely no regulatory weight and are only recommendations. These can be modified any which way however the architect or engineer wants.

-Hal

It looks like we got us an EC.

No I am not the EC. We're bidding as a sub for C7 systems only. If I didn't ask these questions I would expect a few unhappy surprises come day 1 at the site.

Bring a copy of the NEC with you and ask where they get there info, as has been mentioned anything but the code book is nothing more than suggestions and or wants, or better yet check with the JHA that will be doing the final inspection.