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#452861 09/12/09 11:10 AM
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Using the PROPER jacks for the cable is the mark of a craftsman. Jamming a round peg into a square hole isn't. 4 pair cable uses 8p8c jacks, 3 pair cable uses 6p6c jacks and 2 pair cable uses 4p4c jacks.

No, that's absolutely not correct. The jack you use depends on what you will have plugged into it, it has NOTHING to do with what pair count the cable might be.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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#452862 09/12/09 12:15 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by hbiss:
No, that's absolutely not correct. The jack you use depends on what you will have plugged into it, it has NOTHING to do with what pair count the cable might be.

-Hal
I agree with Hal on this. Use the correct jack and wiring scheme for the application it's for. Doesn't matter if it's quad or 25 pair. CAT nothing or CAT6.


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#452863 09/12/09 12:36 PM
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I always sell my customers on the same layout as a minimum. Two voice, 2 data. I run 3 4 pair cables per drop. I split the voice cable into two jacks. That way it is all there and ready for me or the next guy and it just adds the cost of 1 voice jack per plate. And it saves me a huge amount of time when I get called back again and again to add new extensions or FAX machines. They always end up using that extra jack.

#452864 09/12/09 01:03 PM
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I always sell my customers on the same layout as a minimum. Two voice, 2 data. I run 3 4 pair cables per drop. I split the voice cable into two jacks. That way it is all there and ready for me or the next guy and it just adds the cost of 1 voice jack per plate.

If I'm selling a phone system I have to be competitive. Every penny counts because the customer is looking for the lowest cost. So if I'm to provide the wiring and jacks for my system under the contract, no way am I going to quote any more than what is required for my system to operate. I'm not a wiring contractor and I don't give a RA about what may happen in the future. I'm only interested in selling my system and making it work at the lowest cost. Years ago it wasn't that way, but that's the way it is now. To do anything else only serves to give the customer ammunition to further nickel and dime and dicker about the cost and what is being done- or look elsewhere.

If I am asked to provide data wiring along with the voice wiring, the data wiring will almost always be under a separate contract because invariably the customer will have some price from his CG or local trunker that I can't compete with. I want that to have minimal impact on the system cost so the customer is free to decline that work as a separate item.

If a customer has his own ideas about what the wiring should be red flags go up. I advise him to contact a wiring contractor of his choice and call when it's completed. After I see what has been done I then decide whether or not I want to do the job.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
#452865 09/12/09 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by hbiss:
...After I see what has been done I then decide whether or not I want to do the job.

-Hal
I hope you advise the client about that choice ahead of time....maybe he/she will get the hint that the "other guys" wiring may not be up to YOUR standards of acceptance.


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#452866 09/12/09 07:27 PM
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I don't agree with Hal and totally agree with Dexman. This days almost every client ask for CAT5E or even CAT6. I am too using color coded jacks and in my opinion it is the right way to do. Yes, almost any system right now have a One pair connection to the Voice network but Legend and Partner still use 2 pair cords but phone jacks are 8p8c and can use Data patch cord to be plugged in into the wall jack as well. Besides the price difference between CAT5 and CAT3 inserts are almost nothing and on 5-6 phones client you are not going to save money anyway. So why bother to do different punch down scheme if you can do uniform 568B on all of them. I don't like attitude of " I don't care what happened in the future" either. If I intent to keep that client then I better off be prepared if he will decide to buy IP system later on. If I will follow Hal's theory customer will blame me later on for not telling him about necessity of rewiring Voice Network in case of going to IP and 100% will drop me as his Vendor. I am proud of not loosing any clients on this ground. I've never was blamed of not telling my customers all choices and possibilities he might faced in the future. That is why my customers stay with me even they decided change the phone system no meter what kind of deal they were offered.

#452867 09/12/09 08:35 PM
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According to my contract: COMSYSTEC does not warrant that premises wiring will work with any service or equipment other than that which COMSYSTEC connects to it at the time of installation.

That's the way it always was and that's the way it's always going to be. If they don't like it I'll just give them your number Vad. I don't need any more PITA customers.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
#452868 09/13/09 06:15 AM
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I have no problem using Cat 5 for telephone but hate it when I see 8p8c jacks used for telephones. The only reason I can see to do that is to take advantage of the customer.

8p8c cost much more then then the proper 6p6c jack

You can get more then one phone on a 4 pair cable there by saving the customer $$ from running extra cables.

6p6c plugs in a 8p8c jack is just looking for trouble. There is no support to stop the plug from twisting and bending the pins which calls for a service call and jack replacement. Job security yes but I feel that is ripping off the customer. Do it right the jack should match the plug being used in it.


Merritt

Business Telephones & Equipment + Commercial Audio/Video Products
Commercial Communications . . . Turner, Maine
If it was built after 1980 don't expect it to work right.
#452869 09/13/09 06:44 AM
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6p6c plugs in a 8p8c jack is just looking for trouble.

I have heard that numerous times but have yet to actually come across this combination to ever be trouble in real life. I don't disagree with the reasoning of why it is to be avoided but in the real world you would think I would have come across it at least once by now.

I took a standard line cord and plugged it into a Cat5e Panduit and it is just as snug and square as it is when I plug it into a Panduit 6 pin voice grade jack. :scratch:

#452870 09/13/09 07:19 AM
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I have replaced numerous 8p8c jacks that have bent pins caused by a phone being plugged in and someone pulling or tripping on the wire. I have one location with a system that does not like line shorts and that has caused port failures resulting in expensive repairs.

John pull sideways on the cord, its the pins that are giving it all the support not the sides of the jack like it should be. [Linked Image from fc08.deviantart.com]


Merritt

Business Telephones & Equipment + Commercial Audio/Video Products
Commercial Communications . . . Turner, Maine
If it was built after 1980 don't expect it to work right.
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