|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,399
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,399 |
This is a pretty good assessment... LINK
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
|
|
|
Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 325
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 325 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 512
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 512 |
*Gartner reports that 85% of networks are not ready for VoIP. What’s even more shocking is that 75% of companies that do not perform a pre-implementation analysis of their network infrastructure will not realize a successful implementation. *
Its been said over and over (nothing new) that anyone with any smarts should do a network assessment. ANY APPLICATION is only as good as your network.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,397 Likes: 18
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
|
|
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,397 Likes: 18 |
What's interesting is that when the VOIP craze started a few years ago, it was touted as something that could be used with existing networks, hence the beauty of the technology. Of course, it didn't take long to realize that VOIP is very taxing on existing networks and places a very high level of demand upon them. It wasn't until long after the fact that it was determined that VIOP really doesn't work on existing LANS. Even Cisco began recommending separate voice cabling. That pretty much shot down the #1 selling point for IP. Even if the existing LAN could be upgraded to handle the traffic, it would be expensive. This hindsight proved to be too costly to the customer, hence the reason that so many of them don't have the necessary infrastructure. They didn't find this out until after the fact.
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,059 Likes: 6
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
|
|
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,059 Likes: 6 |
Ed -
NY Life ("The company you keep") is dumping their Nortel system in the NYC corporate headquarters. (BIG building, lots of lines). I have a friend who's working there. He showed me the system when they started installing it and touted its advantages (Him: "You can go to the Atlanta office and sign in and all your calls will go there!" Me: "And?").
Anyway, they've cut over most of the building and the system works. Sort of.
It is much better since they've assigned BOTH separate verical riser AND horizontal cable runs for the VOIP sets.
What was happening in the first few floors they cut over was that either the voice got squashed by heavy data traffic or when they gave voice priority than the data wasn't getting through.
Costs have been (at least) 3-4 times what was projected. Senior mangement is committed to the project and vows to continue it.
What do I know?
Sam
"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 131
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 131 |
- Even Cisco began recommending separate voice cabling.
Please show me that Cisco document. I have read most of the voice SRNDs and have never seen this. Why would you ever want to do that? We ALWAYS setup at least 4-6 VLANs and trunk (or multiaccess VLAN port) to the IP phone. If a person can't design a single converged VoIP network what is the point doing VoIP? All of our customers run Voice and data over the same network (but with VLANs, QoS, and a lot of pre-design) and none of them are having problems. To say they NEVER have problems is not true they do have problems, we fix them and then move on. You can't expect all of this to work if you are using Linksys switches, routing VoIP across the Internet, running everything on the same VLAN - It just doesn't work that way.
To tell you the truth I think the 15% number is high in my experience for a network being ready for VoIP. Most of the old switches don't do PoE so you are stuck with power bricks. To me you can't separate voice from a network, it is but one aspect of the network.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,397 Likes: 18
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
|
|
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,397 Likes: 18 |
Originally posted by gcave:
"Even Cisco began recommending separate voice cabling.
Please show me that Cisco document. I have read most of the voice SRNDs and have never seen this."
Honestly, I don't know what an SRND is. What I do know is based upon what I have read here in prior posts over several years and my company's own experience in these situations. You will need to use the search function of this site with the keyword "Cisco", but before you do, grab a pillow and a blanket. I assure you that there will be quite a bit of reading. I also learned this from one of our previous customers who rehired us to run a redundant CAT5e network on the recommendation of their Cisco installer who was not licensed or equipped to run cable. They also paid us to temporarily reconnect their previous system which had been working fine as a backup during the second transition. They ended up paying 160% more than they were quoted for the Cisco "solution". We just completed a Cisco installation for a national retailer today that also insisted upon redundant LAN cabling. Maybe they are onto something.
"Why would you ever want to do that? We ALWAYS setup at least 4-6 VLANs and trunk (or multiaccess VLAN port) to the IP phone. If a person can't design a single converged VoIP network what is the point doing VoIP?"
Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. I am sure that you do things correctly. Most people selling this technology don't follow your logic. It is like Jose' the Handyman painting the exterior of your house with interior paint. It will look great for a little while. What is the cost savings when having to rewire the facility with redundant switches, etc. due to their incompetence?
"All of our customers run Voice and data over the same network (but with VLANs, QoS, and a lot of pre-design) and none of them are having problems."
That was the general gist of the article. Your company is obviously doing things correctly. You represent one of a very small number of companies that follow this logic. Untrained people are selecting and installing these systems based upon hype. Management is afraid of the IT guy because if he doesn't get what he wants, the network might mysteriously crash on his sick day. This being the very same guy who still uses the term 'RJ45' and has a shirt pocket full of Sharpies in a Xerox pocket protector.
"To say they NEVER have problems is not true they do have problems, we fix them and then move on."
Same thing with water heaters, transmissions, satellite receivers and laser printers. The very same thing can be said about all phones, whether TDM, VoIP or hybrid systems. It's just not as frequently and usually with less of a catastrophic effect. Hey, failures occur with any technology. It's all about frequency of downtime, downtime for updates, licenses (seats), etc. Sorry, but VoIP wins that prize. Nobody can argue that point.
"You can't expect all of this to work if you are using Linksys switches, routing VoIP across the Internet, running everything on the same VLAN - It just doesn't work that way."
That's so true. The problem is that many, if not most people selling this technology are simple 22 year-old CG's trying to impress their boss.
The BIG installations are being sold on the golf course from one CEO to another, neither of them having a clue what their company sells or what it is buying! Cost overruns to these guys are comparable to a few extra Martinis after 18 holes. There truly is no legitimate justification in the expense of these systems at this time.
"To tell you the truth I think the 15% number is high in my experience for a network being ready for VoIP. Most of the old switches don't do PoE so you are stuck with power bricks. To me you can't separate voice from a network, it is but one aspect of the network."
Yep, most networks aren't even close to being capable of running VoIP, and I'd be willing to bet that less than one tenth of one percent of existing networks support PoE. That isn't the way people selling VoIP see things. They sell it, the network doesn't support it, then they up sell the customer at twice the quoted price. Not many businesses get away with that.
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 131
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 131 |
Good thoughts Ed. I appreciate your candor and insight.
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,821
Retired Moderator
|
|
Retired Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,821 |
VOIP
Very Often Itsa Pain.....
www.myrandomviews "Old phone guys never die, they just get locked in some closet with an old phone system and forgotten about" Retired, taking photographs and hoping to fly one of my many kites.
|
|
|
|
Forums84
Topics94,515
Posts639,952
Members49,847
| |
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
|
|
|
0 members (),
259
guests, and
47
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
