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94astro Offline OP
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In a situation where there is no ground terminal, no drop ceiling to access copper pipes where would you ground to?? I've heard of people grounding to electrical outlets but I've never seen it or done it before... so under these circumstances where could I ground to without doing some major drilling to run a ground wire to a proper ground??


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The only way you should ground to the electrical ground is at the panel, with the proper gauge of ground wire. What is it you're grounding? How far from the power panel? Plus all grounds should be tied together. So if you were to ground to a copper cold water pipe that pipe would have to be bonded to the power ground someplace also. You never want a difference in potential between your equipment ground and building, electric or earth grounds.


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No, you shouldn't ground to an electrical outlet. That's not technically a building grounding electrode. You'll need to find some building steel, as in framing members like I-beams. Errico makes some beam clamps that will make this connection easy. Metal studs aren't considered to be building steel.


Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
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94astro Offline OP
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What I'm installing is a phone system, NEC DSX80 which needs to be grounded or else you get a
very noticable humm on all CO's.

This is an old brick building that was pre-cabled by another company, hard lid ceilings everywhere and alot of concrete in the halls. The electrical panel is downstairs on the opposite side of the bldng.

I know these customers won't want to pay us to tear up things so I might have to leave it in the hands of the company that cabled the place.

Thanks for the info, I don't know what I-beams are but I'll look that up and maybe that will be the solution...


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I don't know what I-beams are...

I think we're in trouble.

For the solution to your "problem" click here. See that big wing nut binding post? Don't dare ask what its for...

-Hal


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My suggestion would then be to look at Ditek's line of AC power surge supressors. Check this one out:

https://www.ditekcorp.com/product-details.asp?ProdKey=24

I have used them before in a pinch where a building ground was difficult to reach and they seemed to do OK. No failures, but I can't vouch for them. We may have just dodged a bullet. It does give you a "feel-good" place to run your system's ground to. There's still no substitute for a true building grounding electrode, as in a building frame member or copper water pipe.

As for the noise on CO lines, somebody is blowing "noise" at you. All systems must be able to operate in a normal environment without this concern or they wouldn't be FCC approved. The cabinet ground received from the third prong of the electrical plug is more than enough to provide a sufficient ground connection.


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What Ed and Hal give as a reference wouldn't be my 1st choice for a ground, but sounds to me like it's your best option. That's just me, old school telecom #6 to a ground buss with all grounds common and no I'm not able to get it everytime. My second choice is the electric panel ground as it is usually a common ground. I also run #10 even though most systems say #12 I'm sure what's been suggested is plenty good for what you're doing.


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It wouldn't be my first choice for something like a protector ground but for most systems today that supplemental ground is just a redundant power cord ground. It serves no purpose other than a UL requirement in case the power cord gets yanked. You can actually cause more harm than good if you connect it to a ground other than where the power cord ground prong is connected to. So that Ditek unit is just what the doctor ordered.

I agree with Ed about your hum. If you are seeing this I would have an electrician check the power receptical for proper wiring and a ground. Just because a receptical has a ground hole doesn't mean that its connected to anything.

-Hal


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You're right there Hal, I've seen the ground from the power cord strapped or under the external ground lug.


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94astro Offline OP
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That DITEK surge protector seems like a perfect solution for my case, thanks... But that humm on the Co's coming out of the NEC DSX80 is definately coming from the DSX, not the co's or improper ground (actually it could be a combo of both).

This system which has been out for less then a year will give you a humm if not grounded. We've installed about six of them and have heard that noise each time, all other times I was able to ground it fairly easy though. There have been posts in the NEC forum about this. Again, thank you guys...


Aaron
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