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#567951 03/10/14 10:09 PM
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Having a little problem with WE 551C? I just hooked up. First let me say all of my schematics are packed up so to finish running 25-pair cable. Secondly, the KSU came with only 12-pair of wires hooked up. It seems to work OK except for two things: on the 25-pair I hooked up (using the 12-pair that the original owner did), the line 1 light does not light up and it's not the bulb. Second, the phone does not ring. Anyone have any troubleshooting ideas for either problem? I know with the first it must be either a broken wire in the cable or the wire is not punched down correctly. Which wire should I look at?


Bill
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phonenut260 #567953 03/10/14 10:45 PM
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4th down when you google WE 551 1A2
wedophones.com/TheBellSystem/pdf/bsp/550and551/518-215-407.pdf‎

phonenut260 #567954 03/10/14 10:56 PM
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Short the 3rd and 4th wires (A & A1) together. You should hear the relay on the card click and the light should light.

As far as the bell not ringing - it could be a variety of things. Test the ringer by connecting the bell directly to T & R, either in the set (Black & Red bell leads) or by punching down the yellow/slate pair across T&R.

See what happens. Let us know.

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
phonenut260 #567955 03/10/14 11:04 PM
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There are several things to check when a lamp doesn't light:

KSU plugged into commercial power?

Main fuse OK?

10 Vac fuse OK?

24 Vdc fuses OK?

Interrupter in "home" position?

Ringing problems: You need to tell us more info.

Phone wired for line ringing or CMB?

118A freq generator or 20B2 power unit installed for generator supply?

Does the interrupter start on incoming calls?

What type line cards are you using?

Did you ground the KSU?

Have you checked your terminations carefully? No transposed pairs?

------

Do you have a digital or analog multi-meter handy that you can use to do a few tests?


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

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Thanks but I got a 404 error when I put your link in.


Bill
Silversam #568024 03/11/14 08:34 PM
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I did get the card to light but not the phone key to light by shorting 3 and 4.

My punch tool is packed away right now. My friend used his to do the third 25-pair . All three cables originate from the 66 connector block inside the KSU. Will try getting the phone to ring directly a little later.


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Arthur, sorry to take so long to get back to you.
Here are your answers:
1. Yes
2.Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Sorry, don't know what home position is. Interrupter has a little screw in the front that can be turned. Does not make a difference in anything when I turn it.
6. Phone wired for line ringing or CMB? Don't know what terms mean and how to determine either.
7. Don't think it has a frequency generator but don't know where to look. All I see is a 28d2 power supply, the four line card slots, the interrupter and the 66-connecting block.
8. The interrupter starts on incoming calls on line 2, but not line 1, but still neither one rings the phone. Both lines are still hooked up to regular phones throughout the house. The second line has only the fax and one other ringing phone. The first has about 20 phones but does have a Viking ring booster.
9. WE 400D x2 and one 401B
10. Yes
11. None that I can see but I am visually impaired.
Question for you: Can a 1A2 system exist with regular phone service? How can I tell for sure what type of KSU I have. My 551B has 551B stamped on it, but I can find no markings on this KSU.


Bill
phonenut260 #568027 03/11/14 09:37 PM
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If the card lights, but not the phone, then the problem could be in the lamp pair (3rd pair down) white/green - lamp ground, green/white - lamp.

When you short A/A1 and the card lights, do you get 10v AC appearing on lg/l?

You can check with a meter, a butt set, or by inserting a working lamp from the key set between the clips on the 66 block.

If you do NOT have voltage there, then the problem is with the 400 card or the wiring on the KSU.

If you DO have voltage there, then you need to check inside the set. Is the lamp in the set good? Do you have continuity between the 66 block and the set?

One problem at a time.

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
Silversam #568034 03/11/14 10:58 PM
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Thanks Sam, but I have an update. I got the line 1 light to light up by eliminating the 4A speakerphone and hooking up the amphenol connector from the KSU directly to the line cord of the phone. I don't know if this indicates a problem with the 4A speakerphone or the 82 connecting block, the latter of which is not WE but PCI. Your thoughts here would be appreciated as always.


Bill
phonenut260 #568037 03/12/14 12:25 AM
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"Sorry, don't know what home position is. Interrupter has a little screw in the front that can be turned. Does not make a difference in anything when I turn it."

>>>The interrupter motor has a contact arrangement such that once it is energized by having its MS (Motor Start) lead grounded by a KTU, it will run for one revolution, then stop in a "home" position, unless the MS lead is still grounded. (Similar to the way automobile wipers will always return to the lowest position.) In the home position, all the contact pairs are closed, by design. This ensures that in the event of a power failure, or mechanical failure of the interrupter, the lamps that are supposed to flash will at least be lit steadily, and the ringers, which should operate at a cadence of 1 second on/3 seconds off, will at least ring steadily.

It is not easy to see if the interrupter is in the home position, but watching and listening will tell you. Occasionally, an interrupter will fail to return home due to being seated improperly, or because a fuse has opened. The screw is just to hold the cover on. It is not an adjustment of any kind.

"Phone wired for line ringing or CMB? Don't know what terms mean and how to determine either. Don't think it has a frequency generator but don't know where to look."

>>>A key telephone's ringer can be wired in one of two ways:

(1) it is wired directly across the T & R of a line that appears in the phone, with the capacitor (part of the network) in series. In this scheme, the generator (ringing current) comes directly from the central office line.

(2) it is wired as part of a larger wiring scheme, called "common ringing" (the individual ringer is abbreviated CMB for "common bell." In this scheme, the ringing current comes from a local supply of generator, such as a wall-mounted power unit (20- or 30-type) or from a small "wall wart" type supply, the 118A, that mounts inside the KSU.

"The first has about 20 phones but does have a Viking ring booster. WE 400D x2."

>>>The Viking ring booster (it's actually called a ring extender) is not ground-referenced. **MOST** of the WE 400D KTU's require a grounded ringing supply. The reason your 2nd line works is probably because it is not running through a ring extender. Try using a later vintage or variant of the 400 KTU, or better yet, use a SanBar 4000F KTU.

"Can a 1A2 system exist with regular phone service?"

>>>I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you mean can a key system be mixed with single-line telephones on the same CO line? If that's your question, the answer is "yes."

"How can I tell for sure what type of KSU I have?"

A photo will allow us to tell you. Does it have a hinged metal cover that holds the power supply and KTU slots, with the 66 block mounted in the rear of the cabinet, or does it have a lift-off gray plastic cover, with the 66 block mounted off-center, to the right of the KTU slots?



Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

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