web statisticsweb stats Business Phone Systems Tech Talk Forum - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help

Business Phone Systems

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1
Sharn25 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1
I got the question from my client to do return loss and propagation delay test on telephone cable they are purchasing. But manufacturing vendor saying these tests are not applicable on the telephone cable. But i cannot able to justify why these tests are not applicable on the telephone cables. I searched on the internet found nothing regarding this.

So, My question is why these tests are not applicable for telephone cable? is there any standard stating that?

Thanks.

Atcom VoIP Phones
VoIP Demo

Best VoIP Phones Canada


Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
My question would be why these test are needed? What are they running on it? Return loss and envelope delay were test run years ago on 4 wire private line circuits, not much call for it today that I know of. There are delay and other test run on fiber optics but that another world. I guess there's some in the IT world that believe return loss is still relevant, but if you certify a cable I don't see where checking loss and delay would be of any added benefit. I'm old school so I could be all wet.


Retired phone dude
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,799
Likes: 18
Retired Admin
*****
Offline
Retired Admin
*****
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,799
Likes: 18
When I see the words "telephone cable" I think UTP/ScTP and the only tester needed is a Wire Map Tester for quick basic tests.

When I see the words "Return Loss" I think Data cables and Certification testers for each category: NEXT, Delay, Attenuation to crosstalk ratio (ACR), Return loss, Delay skew,

When I see "Envelope Delay" (The terms envelope delay and group delay are generally used interchangeably) I think Audio System Measurements: Frequency Response (FR), Total Harmonic Distortion (THD), Output Power, Intermodulation Distortion (IMD), Noise, Crosstalk, Common-mode Rejection Ratio (CMRR), Dynamic range and Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR), Phase Distortion, Group Delay and Phase Delay, Transient Response, and Damping Factor.

I believe that your customer is just blowing "Buzz Words" around without knowing what it means, probably calls a 8P8C Modular plug an RJ-45 and a curly handset cord an RJ-9.

POSSIBLY your customer wants the "telephone wires" run through a certified tester. If it's Category 3 then test the wires as Category 3 and meets the parameters as set out by ANSI-TIA-EIA 568B page 57.


Remember if you are using a Fluke DTX series tester that Calibration and Service ends June 30, 2018


Dean
Photographs:
https://www.instagram.com/deanwilsoncanby/
https://fstoppers.com/profile/deanwilsoncanby
https://www.facebook.com/Dean-Wilson-Photography-112841337020414

Please don't confuse your "Internet Search" with my licenses, certifications and over 30 years experience.

"Thank you for calling Technical Support. If you feel you have reached this number in error, please hang up and press redial."
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
Member
****
Offline
Member
****
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,722
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by Professor Shadow
I believe that your customer is just blowing "Buzz Words" around without knowing what it means, probably calls a 8P8C Modular plug an RJ-45 and a curly handset cord an RJ-9.


agree


Retired phone dude
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Offline
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
*****
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,058
Likes: 5
At GTE we did transmission and loss tests on the 2 & 4 Wire E&M Trunks on our private networks. On fiber we did the standard end to end tests with OTDRS. On T-1s and T-3s we did Bert Tests.

On LANs we tested and certified all cables to their particular standards: whether they be CAT3, CAT5E, CAT6 or whatever.

You cannot test a CAT3 telephone cable to Cat 5 standards, it'll fail immediately.

If we had a customer who wanted to install CAT6 cable and use it for telephones then we would certify it for CAT6. It would work for whatever he wanted it for. Overkill? Sure! But maybe he was future proofing.

Listen to JustBill and Professor Shadow - they're steering you straight.

Someplace in the dreaded Basement I may still have a GTE manual on trunk testing. If your guy won't settle for certifying then let me know and I'll see if I can find it. It's not applicable and he won't like the associated costs, but what the heck.

Sam


"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"

Moderated by  Silversam 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics94,262
Posts638,697
Members49,757
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
Popular Topics(Views)
211,113 Shoretel
187,717 CTX100 install
186,810 1a2 system
Newest Members
BPopilek, Rich F, LewisR, TDKs79, Buttinset
49,757 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
dexman 18
Toner 11
TDKs79 7
pvj 4
Who's Online Now
1 members (JBean3329), 50 guests, and 422 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Contact Us | Sponsored by Atcom: One of the best VoIP Phone Canada Suppliers for your business telephone system!| Terms of Service

Sundance Communications is not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers. Sundance Phone System Forums - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help
©Copyright Sundance Communications 1998-2024
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5