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I personally use CAT5E for all V+D runs because today the differance in prices between those two just almost nothing.

Vad, PLEASE check your facts before making a statement. The difference in cost between CAT5e and CAT3 plenum rated cable is 100%. We have discussed this here before. Even with riser the difference is significant unless you are using junk.

And personally, I'm also sick of the old "if somebody wants to add a computer" excuse. I'm not the computer guy, I'm the telephone guy and I couldn't care less about making some CGs job easier on my nickel.

And please stay on topic!

-Hal

Thanks for all of the input. I will keep you in the loop. On my way to the job now.

I'm in agreement with using CAT3 for voice runs. Besides the price difference on the cable, the install time for punching CAT3 onto 66 blocks is so much faster than having to deal with the tight twists on CAT5.
A little sidenote--I recently moved a Norstar CICS for a customer where the 'computer guy' prewired for the phones also. My mouth actually dropped open when I stepped into the equipment room. The customer wanted 12 sets connected (with really no more room in office to add more),but i picked up the bundle of cables and counted 65 CAT6 - yes- 65 CAT6 (in addition to 48 data )cables to terminate. When I asked the computer guy why he did this, his reply was "for the future". :bang:

Besides the price difference on the cable, the install time for punching CAT3 onto 66 blocks is so much faster than having to deal with the tight twists on CAT5.

Getting off topic again but I guess this is where this thread is headed. We are actually considering putting a $10 surcharge on each CAT5 (and up) run when we have to terminate it for voice.

-Hal

Thanks for all the help. I moved the system without a hitch. See you guys on the next post.
Herlin
:toothy:


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I'm gett'n too old for this....

Hal,
I respect your knowlage and your opinion, but I know what am talking about. I don't now how often you are using Plenum cable but I am not using it to much, mostly PVC. So I was talking about PVCs pricing not Plenum and, besides, I do care about computer guy and myself because every customer I am doing job for I intend to keep. Who knows what he would decide to do next week or next year.

Who knows what he would decide to do next week or next year.

My job is to sell and install telephone systems, we are not a wiring contractor. We will install wiring as necessary to make our telephones work. If the customer asks us we will also install data wiring, jacks and patch panels for whatever the computer requirement is at the time. Material and labor is expensive enough without providing for something that may never be used. I don't have a crystal ball and I'm not about to try and guess what the future will bring. If at some point additional wiring is required it can usually be installed with little difficulty.

I use Plenum rated cable almost exclusively because I do mostly commercial work. Nearly all commercial buildings require it due to the environmental air handling spaces the cable is run in.

Working in NY and NJ as you say you do, I can't believe you get away with using non-plenum cable unless all you do is residential- or maybe run it in pipe or surface raceway. NYC is even more strict than the surrounding areas in this respect.

If you know the codes and follow them the installation of wiring is not as simple as many think.

-Hal

We haven't installed PVC cable regardless of building structure or local codes for over 5 years. Easier to stock one item and not worry about oversights. Hard to believe a major metropolitan area like NY, Chicago, LA etc. would still have a lot of PVC installs.

I do not do residentials too and yes I do piping and wires mouldings. And I know that requirments for Plenum only if you running cable in close inviroments like Drop ceilings or walls.

One other thing. Compare NYC to NJ you will be never ask to have a Permit in NYC except insurance and worker comp. In NJ everyone asking for permit and they have no clear understanding who needs that permit but its create lots of problems.