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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,402 Likes: 18
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
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Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,402 Likes: 18 |
OSP cable is effectively "CAT Zero". True, there are some manufacturers that make a CAT3 and CAT5 rated OSP cable, by adding the increased twist tightness, you are actually lengthening the copper pair.
People seem to be under the misconception that CAT5 or above is better. Perhaps in some cases, like typical indoor LAN wiring for data speed, but not in voice applications. I'm shooting from the hip here, but a thousand feet of standard OSP cable nets about 1,100 feet of copper conductor length. A thousand feet of CAT5 nets something closer to 1,500 feet of copper. So, you see by using a higher category rating, you are actually hindering the problem with distance, not helping it.
If you want to address this distance limitation professionally, you should consider sticking with standard OSP cable (PE39 or PE89 for example) and just use 22 gauge instead of 24 gauge.
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,356 Likes: 4
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maybe Cat6 multi-runs
You can't be serious.
-Hal
CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,033
Moderator-Toshiba
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Moderator-Toshiba
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,033 |
Originally posted by hbiss: maybe Cat6 multi-runs
You can't be serious.
-Hal I was waiting for that... :rofl: 
- Tony Ohio Data LLC Phone systems, data networks, firewalls and servers in Central Ohio. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,722
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Now that you are aware of the effect of cable gauge....what makes you think paging audio won't carry? What gauge speaker cable? What voltage paging are you using? Or do you need a secondary distribution amp?
Well, :shrug: ????
Ken ---------
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,356 Likes: 4
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,356 Likes: 4 |
Paging audio definitely won't make it that far so we can tap into a phone speaker.
You lost me there. Are you saying you want paging from overhead or external speakers but you don't think that will work at that distance so you want to hack a phone apart and tap into the speaker??
-Hal
CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 492
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I believe he was thinking about using the amp in the building that is 1200' away for far end speakers. I would use KLD's suggestion and use a secondary distribution amp in the second building. Just feed the secondary amp with audio/page output.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,289 Likes: 15
Admin
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Posts: 9,289 Likes: 15 |
I would use a Cat 3 cable for the phones because a digital phone may not like untwisted pairs but higher cat rating will increase the distance. For the paging a 70 v speaker line will easily go over 1200' but could cause crosstalk or interference on other lines to close.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,059 Likes: 6
Moderator-1A2, Cabling
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Moderator-1A2, Cabling
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,059 Likes: 6 |
You don't want to run 70volts paging through the same cable as the phone (it will bleed through).
Either put another amp in the other building and feed it with a 600 ohm source (off of your PBX or key system) or if you've just got one or two speakers there run an output off the amp through the telephone cable. Use 8 ohm/70volt transformers at each end. Step it down to 8 ohms going in to the pipe and step it to back up to 70 volts when it come out.
Sam
"Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?"
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,402 Likes: 18
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
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Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,402 Likes: 18 |
I would use a Cat 3 cable for the phones because a digital phone may not like untwisted pairs Actually, you can't even buy OSP cable that's not twisted pair. It's just not as tightly-twisted.
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,173
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Great tips, thanks.
As for the paging, Bldg #1 has a Bogen (old) 70v setup and the other extended Bldg #2 has the same.
I guess I was saying that the 600ohm source (off the Samsung 7200) wouldn't reach, but apparently I am wrong? Can a Cat3 4-pair voice cable carry 600ohm audio 1000-1100ft? I have never gone that far. I am aware Valcom has paging expanders to boost the signal (as well as noise I suppose).
Should I use a heavier guage cable for the 600ohm page audio feed - maybe shielded? 99.9% of the paging I've done is Valcom, with short <200ft runs at most. If someone has a specific part number for a good paging feed cable that would be fantastic.
We did an official measurement and it is closer to 1000' - bldg A to B, so I think we are good for the digital phones over say a Cat3 50-pair feed. The Samsung manual says the digital phones are good to 1310'.
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