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Hello,

I am looking for thoughts on Surge and Spike protection to install on an existing phone KSU system.

In a past millennium I would have installed a ITW-UP3B-230 protector on the CO Lines at the 66 Block before the KSU and after the Demarc. Just normal things to do.

Now I question that long learned procedure when installing after a Comcast VOIP Modem????

The questions that come to mind are.
1) Is this even necessary anymore??

2) Is the potential strike or surge just as possible or non-existant since the box (aka as CO) is now on the wall and not 8 miles away??

3) If a strike does hit the comcast coax on the pole and then the modem could it pass thru the modem and go downstream??

4) Is it just good practice just to be safe??

Thanks for any and all input.

Les



Last edited by ABLE1; 07/25/14 06:05 PM.
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We, like you, have always put in ITW lighting protection--grounded. We have stopped doing that with the Comcast modems and EMTAs for analog lines---and also because of the SIP trunks that we install now.

However, we always put in a line interactive UPS (not a standby or offline one). We have used these on every new system we have installed for the last 10/15 years, and have installed them in many other situations involving older systems. Worth every penny of investment, in my opinion.

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Thanks for the response.

Do you know if the Comcast modems have protection inside the case that is something worth while to protect the premis equipment??

I understand the UPS install thoughts, do it as well.

The thing that really started me thinking about this in more detail is what happened yesterday. I was called out by a customer to look at his phone extensions on his system the day before. This has a level of evolution since the original install. I did not do the install.

Once I figured out the NON labeled wiring I determined that the two extensions phones that were down were wired through a surge protector.

Such as KSU ->>- Surge ->>- Extension phone.

It was a SurgeGate MLLT1 by ITW

To make things more confusing this was converted from Verizon Landline service to Comcast VOIP. As it turned out the Comcast modem lost line 2 during the event.

How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok. Except for line 2 which was dead from modem.

It is not Alexanders world anymore.

Thanks for the input all.

Les

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First things first. There is, absolutely, NO device made that will protect anything from a direct lightning strike.

A lightning strike can occur 10 or more miles away and will follow ANYTHING that will convey it to ground, including coax, telephone cable and power line. BUT, if you install protection, that is, AC line, CO trunks and OPX/OPE you have a good chance of avoiding disaster.

Anyone who installs telephone equipment, whether SIP, POTS on Copper or Comcast, etc. and does NOT use protection is only gambling and will eventually pay the piper.

IF you install protection, you MUST insure that ground is actually GROUND and not some high resistance fake ground. Not only should the protection devices be grounded, they must be bonded.

We use surge protection on ANYTHING that is connected to the KSU or PBX. I don't care who the provider is, anything metallic is a potential path for lightning.

By the way....Comcast equipment barely meets UL approval. There IS NO protection in their equipment. I have seen their boxes melted and burned to a crisp and our KSU running like nothing happened. THAT'S the value of full protection.

Rcaman


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Rcaman,

I totally agree with everything you say. But you forgot to include FIOS on your list of media that lightning can follow.

Was called out to an alarm customer that needed to replace the RJ31X protector and reconnect the alarm panel to the dial tone and test. A lightening bolt hit a tree 1/2 mile from the house along a private drive. The bolt was so strong that it split the tree to the root, parted the earth for 35 feet across the driveway, hit the buried FIOS cable and followed it to the house where it blew the FIOS box off the wall.

Verizon came out and repaired all. Seeing the after effects was an amazing site to see.

With every strike that I have observed I am always amazed at what it can do. It is an amazing world we live in.

With all of that I am still wondering how a protector between the KSU and the Ext. Phone can take a hit that short out something on the board(not visible) and not damage the KSU or the Ext. Phones. Boggles the mind. I guess no one wants to venture a guess on that amazing feat.

Thanks to all that respond here.

Les

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How would lightning striking a fiber optic cable blow a FiOS ONT off of a wall? Glass isn't a conductive material. Unless there is a steel support strand embedded in overhead lines and drops, a strike would melt the glass fibers. A lightning strike to power lines...I could see that causing that type of damage.


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Quote
How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok.

Improper ground. The overvoltage was present on the ground wire, went back through the surge protectors and was taken care of by the internal surge protectors on the extension ports of the KSU thereby blowing the fuses in the surges.

-Hal


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Originally Posted by hbiss
Quote
How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok.

Improper ground. The overvoltage was present on the ground wire, went back through the surge protectors and was taken care of by the internal surge protectors on the extension ports of the KSU thereby blowing the fuses in the surges.

-Hal

So your thinking that the #6 Copper cable that was run to the phone system by others was or is not connected properly to building structure or has some other bad connection??

Les

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Where is the button that will allow me to get email notifications of new post on this thread??

Please advise!!

Les

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At the bottom of each post is a bunch of boxes. The last two that I see say "Notify" and "Email Post". Do they appear for you as well?


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