web statisticsweb stats Business Phone Systems Tech Talk Forum - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help

Business Phone Systems

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
ABLE1 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
Hello,

I am looking for thoughts on Surge and Spike protection to install on an existing phone KSU system.

In a past millennium I would have installed a ITW-UP3B-230 protector on the CO Lines at the 66 Block before the KSU and after the Demarc. Just normal things to do.

Now I question that long learned procedure when installing after a Comcast VOIP Modem????

The questions that come to mind are.
1) Is this even necessary anymore??

2) Is the potential strike or surge just as possible or non-existant since the box (aka as CO) is now on the wall and not 8 miles away??

3) If a strike does hit the comcast coax on the pole and then the modem could it pass thru the modem and go downstream??

4) Is it just good practice just to be safe??

Thanks for any and all input.

Les



Last edited by ABLE1; 07/25/14 02:05 PM.
Atcom VoIP Phones
VoIP Demo

Best VoIP Phones Canada


Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,268
Moderator-Allworx, Nisuko-Tie, Vodavi
Offline
Moderator-Allworx, Nisuko-Tie, Vodavi
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,268
We, like you, have always put in ITW lighting protection--grounded. We have stopped doing that with the Comcast modems and EMTAs for analog lines---and also because of the SIP trunks that we install now.

However, we always put in a line interactive UPS (not a standby or offline one). We have used these on every new system we have installed for the last 10/15 years, and have installed them in many other situations involving older systems. Worth every penny of investment, in my opinion.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
ABLE1 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
Thanks for the response.

Do you know if the Comcast modems have protection inside the case that is something worth while to protect the premis equipment??

I understand the UPS install thoughts, do it as well.

The thing that really started me thinking about this in more detail is what happened yesterday. I was called out by a customer to look at his phone extensions on his system the day before. This has a level of evolution since the original install. I did not do the install.

Once I figured out the NON labeled wiring I determined that the two extensions phones that were down were wired through a surge protector.

Such as KSU ->>- Surge ->>- Extension phone.

It was a SurgeGate MLLT1 by ITW

To make things more confusing this was converted from Verizon Landline service to Comcast VOIP. As it turned out the Comcast modem lost line 2 during the event.

How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok. Except for line 2 which was dead from modem.

It is not Alexanders world anymore.

Thanks for the input all.

Les

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716
Member
***
Offline
Member
***
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716
First things first. There is, absolutely, NO device made that will protect anything from a direct lightning strike.

A lightning strike can occur 10 or more miles away and will follow ANYTHING that will convey it to ground, including coax, telephone cable and power line. BUT, if you install protection, that is, AC line, CO trunks and OPX/OPE you have a good chance of avoiding disaster.

Anyone who installs telephone equipment, whether SIP, POTS on Copper or Comcast, etc. and does NOT use protection is only gambling and will eventually pay the piper.

IF you install protection, you MUST insure that ground is actually GROUND and not some high resistance fake ground. Not only should the protection devices be grounded, they must be bonded.

We use surge protection on ANYTHING that is connected to the KSU or PBX. I don't care who the provider is, anything metallic is a potential path for lightning.

By the way....Comcast equipment barely meets UL approval. There IS NO protection in their equipment. I have seen their boxes melted and burned to a crisp and our KSU running like nothing happened. THAT'S the value of full protection.

Rcaman


Americom, Inc.
Where The Art And Science Of Communications Meet
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
ABLE1 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
Rcaman,

I totally agree with everything you say. But you forgot to include FIOS on your list of media that lightning can follow.

Was called out to an alarm customer that needed to replace the RJ31X protector and reconnect the alarm panel to the dial tone and test. A lightening bolt hit a tree 1/2 mile from the house along a private drive. The bolt was so strong that it split the tree to the root, parted the earth for 35 feet across the driveway, hit the buried FIOS cable and followed it to the house where it blew the FIOS box off the wall.

Verizon came out and repaired all. Seeing the after effects was an amazing site to see.

With every strike that I have observed I am always amazed at what it can do. It is an amazing world we live in.

With all of that I am still wondering how a protector between the KSU and the Ext. Phone can take a hit that short out something on the board(not visible) and not damage the KSU or the Ext. Phones. Boggles the mind. I guess no one wants to venture a guess on that amazing feat.

Thanks to all that respond here.

Les

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,162
Likes: 8
Spam Hunter
*****
Offline
Spam Hunter
*****
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,162
Likes: 8
How would lightning striking a fiber optic cable blow a FiOS ONT off of a wall? Glass isn't a conductive material. Unless there is a steel support strand embedded in overhead lines and drops, a strike would melt the glass fibers. A lightning strike to power lines...I could see that causing that type of damage.


I Love FEATURE 00
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,342
Likes: 3
Member
***
Offline
Member
***
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,342
Likes: 3
Quote
How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok.

Improper ground. The overvoltage was present on the ground wire, went back through the surge protectors and was taken care of by the internal surge protectors on the extension ports of the KSU thereby blowing the fuses in the surges.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
ABLE1 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by hbiss
Quote
How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU?? AND it was NOT damaged?? I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok.

Improper ground. The overvoltage was present on the ground wire, went back through the surge protectors and was taken care of by the internal surge protectors on the extension ports of the KSU thereby blowing the fuses in the surges.

-Hal

So your thinking that the #6 Copper cable that was run to the phone system by others was or is not connected properly to building structure or has some other bad connection??

Les

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
ABLE1 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
Where is the button that will allow me to get email notifications of new post on this thread??

Please advise!!

Les

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,162
Likes: 8
Spam Hunter
*****
Offline
Spam Hunter
*****
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,162
Likes: 8
At the bottom of each post is a bunch of boxes. The last two that I see say "Notify" and "Email Post". Do they appear for you as well?


I Love FEATURE 00
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  MooreTel 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics94,262
Posts638,693
Members49,757
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
Popular Topics(Views)
211,096 Shoretel
187,702 CTX100 install
186,791 1a2 system
Newest Members
BPopilek, Rich F, LewisR, TDKs79, Buttinset
49,757 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
dexman 18
Toner 14
TDKs79 8
jc2it 4
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 99 guests, and 241 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Contact Us | Sponsored by Atcom: One of the best VoIP Phone Canada Suppliers for your business telephone system!| Terms of Service

Sundance Communications is not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers. Sundance Phone System Forums - VOIP & Cloud Phone Help
©Copyright Sundance Communications 1998-2024
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5