atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring IT guys strike again!

My customer had their IT guys wire their new office. I went in today to move the phone system. I got everything installed and cross connected, but not one phone worked.

I stuck my toner in a jack and found my tone on blue/white and white/green. WTF!

So, I open a jack and see that he used 6-conductor jacks for voice, but wired them '568B' (sort of). He had white/org pair on pins 1 and 2. white/green on pin 3. blue/white on pin 4. white/blue on pin 5 and green/white on pin 6.

And the brown pair, wrapped around the cable, probably not sure what to do with it...

The MDF could definately be a candidate for the 'ugly work' thread (66 blocks mounted upside down, messy termination, poor layout).

There is a certain craftsmanship that us pro's put into our work, that these hacks haven't learned and don't understand. It makes me want to cry when I see a nice new office suite wired up in this fashion - and the customer either doesn't realize it or care either way.

You: "Mr. Customer, I have completed the installation of your phone system, as we discussed/contracted. The system works properly when the phones are plugged directly into the control box."

Him: "But the phones don't work when I plug them into the jacks."

You: "I can either explain why, show you why, or show your IT guys why. Right after you pay me for what I've done so far."

The IT person did follow (to a certain extent) the 568B wiring convention.

I always use 568B, but I sometimes find myself, when cross-connecting extensions for a Partner system, automatically punching down on the Blue and Orange pairs and then feeling foolish when I remember that the 2-pair phones need to use the blue & green pairs. :scratch:

I always use 568B, but I sometimes find myself, when cross-connecting extensions for a Partner system, automatically punching down on the Blue and Orange pairs and then feeling foolish when I remember that the 2-pair phones need to use the blue & green pairs.

I keep saying this nearly every day but I guess everybody else is smarter than I am. THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T USE DATA WIRING AND JACKS FOR VOICE! What the hell is the reason for using 8P/8C jacks wired (with I'm sure CAT5) for 568B then punching the other end down on a 66 block? Damn guys, when are you going to figure it out? Provide the wiring and jacks as necessary for whatever system YOU are installing AND STOP worrying about what somebody may want to do with it later! That's not your friggin problem!

-Hal

THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T USE DATA WIRING AND JACKS FOR VOICE! What the hell is the reason for using 8P/8C jacks wired (with I'm sure CAT5)


I use the following cabling & jacks:

SYSTIMAX

Cable:

004BGY 4/24 W1000 (4 Pair CAT3)
004BWH 4/24 W1000 (4 pair CAT3)

Jacks:

M1BH-H-270 (CAT3)
M1BH-H-262 (CAT3)

None of this is CAT 5E (or higher) rated.

Seeing 8P8C jacks does not mean that CAT 5E or higher cabling was used no matter how many times that may true.

Most of the major cable manufacturers no longer produce 2 pair cabling. If cutting off or wrapping extra wires is considered to be the sign of a "hack job", what do you do with the remaining pair(s) if you use 6P6C or 4P4C jacks?

Use 8P8C jacks, punch all of the pairs down and be done with it.

Use 8P8C jacks, punch all of the pairs down and be done with it.

If you use an 8P8C jack some idiot will plug a data cable in it. Use a voice jack and wrap the spare pairs. Many times a customer will want an additional voice jack at the same location and you will need the spare pairs at that time. Customers always seem to move fax machines requiring and additional voice jack.

As far as 2 pair cable, General still makes it.

Assetts:

1000ft box plenum, about $55
24 cables to 1 66 block
CG won't touch it (he thinks it is inferior)
I install single pair digital systems so I have twice as many pairs as I need. BTW, if your installing single pair digital systems the blue pair goes in the same place on all popular wiring patterns so even a cave man can't screw up a jack, which brings us to next asset of 2 pair.

With a 4 pin mod on one end it is a great jumper to go from 66 block to the patch panel front side so you can use a data port down the hall for a phone. Geeks hate it when I put a white jumper across the front of their patch panel. Screw'em!

As far as 2 pair cable, General still makes it.

Yup and I always have a couple of thousand in stock and have it for the same reason. What do you do when a customer has an existing Partner system that uses two pairs and you are asked to add an extension off an existing 66 block? Normally you would see all flavors of abortions by hacks that involve line cords spliced or even punched down on the block, or a field of biscuit jacks with a couple of dozen line cords between them and the system all knotted up and hanging there.

2 pair also comes in handy in a pinch when they want a phone on the other side of the office as the jack. Make up a long line cord and staple or tuck it in around the baseboard.

If cutting off or wrapping extra wires is considered to be the sign of a "hack job", what do you do with the remaining pair(s) if you use 6P6C or 4P4C jacks?

You would NEVER cut them off and wrapping the spares back is the mark of a craftsman.

It's nearly everyday that I use those spares and another keystone jack to add another phone, a fax or maybe a CC machine. Used to be they were used all the time for modems.

-Hal

If you use an 8P8C jack some idiot will plug a data cable in it

That's the reason (at least with my church install) that I've color coded the jacks & cables and used a P-touch label maker to label everything clearly (in locations where multiple ports are involved).

If color coding and labeling isn't enough to prevent someone from trying to plug in a modem into a telephone system port, then that person has other issues.

You would NEVER cut them off and wrapping the spares back is the mark of a craftsman.

Using the PROPER jacks for the cable is the mark of a craftsman. Jamming a round peg into a square hole isn't. 4 pair cable uses 8p8c jacks, 3 pair cable uses 6p6c jacks and 2 pair cable uses 4p4c jacks.

No, I fully agree with you, the proper way to teminate the cable is to wrap back the unused pairs.

My frustration is that this guy used 6-conductor jacks (and Cat6 cable), but in his ignorance, wired them '568B'. So, instead of white/blue - blue/white on pins 3/4, it was blue/white - white/green.

This is happening more often, these guys who take the attitude that 'anyone can install wiring'. Yes, that is true, but not everyone should.

Anyway, it was a nice new office suite, but if you pop a ceiling tile open, the wiring is run scattered all over. The MDF looked like crap. 1/4" paneling used for a backboard, just screwed into the drywall not in studs. 66 block mounted upside down. And the termination technique was sloppy. Then, none of my phones worked...

I wish I had my camera with me, definately one for the 'ugly install' thread.